Voice Over (00:03):

Thanks for joining us for the small talk, big ideas podcast. A podcast to enrich your soul where we have conversations with inspiring people about all things, property, business, and life, and now the host of Small Talk, Big Ideas, Ian Ugarte.

Ian Ugarte (00:24):

Hey there it’s Ian Ugarte, from Small Talk, Big Ideas, and today’s podcast is with Glenys Howard. A lady that happened to be met by me because of something she’d said on social media, according to one of our posts. I gave her a call and it was just an absolutely fantastic conversation, and she agreed with everything that I’ve said about housing. And what’s more importantly is that Glenys is 76 years old and has a world of knowledge enjoy today’s podcast and the amazing story that she brings forward as a woman who found herself basically single and no where to go and know where to live, enjoy it today.

Ian Ugarte (01:00):

As always, you can subscribe to all our social media channels and have a look at more of what we do @ianugarte.com.au.That’s Ugarte, U G A R T E .com.au.

Ian Ugarte (01:12):

Enjoy this podcast, she is an absolutely amazing woman. We sort of met, this is the first time we’ve seen each other face to face. We sort of met because you made some commentary on one of our Facebook posts. It was really encouraging from my side to see someone saying, “Oh yeah, no, I agree that this is a good thing.” We then had a subsequent phone call. I mean, do you want to tell people who you are, you obviously named Glenys and what you’ve done in your lifetime?

Glenys Howard (01:42):

Oh my goodness. How long have you got? I’m a 76 year old. I retired only fairly recently and I live in a tiny space at 28 square meters. I’ve gone from living in big old country, homesteads in far Western Queensland, lived in Tasmania, Queensland, Western New South Wales, and here I am on the banks of the Hastings River in Port Macquarie and a heaven on a stick. I live in a little tiny space and it’s simply amazing how easy it is. This is actually old, but new well-designed small spaces to me just simply make sense.

Ian Ugarte (02:38):

Yeah and you know, that’s something that we’ve been pushing a barrow on for a very, very long time. Let’s say we go in all directions here. So where were you born and where were you brought up as a young child?

Glenys Howard (02:51):

I was born in New Zealand. I was brought up in Hawkes Bay. I had the misfortune to marry an Australian. Oh, no, we did have our good times and [crosstalk 00:03:10]

Ian Ugarte (03:10):

I take it, there was some good times, but not so good times as well?

Glenys Howard (03:15):

Yeah, oh sure. So I came to Australia to live and I did go home in the early two thousands thinking I was going to solve the problem, all my problems, but it didn’t happen. I was too Australianized by then. I love the openness. I was just far more used to the Australian way of life. Let’s put it that way.

Ian Ugarte (03:50):

So that wouldn’t make a lot of sense to Australians. What’s the key difference between the Aussies in the Kiwis, as far as you were concerned and not being able to go back there?

Glenys Howard (03:58):

Oh, I could go on, but my personal situation was probably more that I was reliant on assistance from the government. I was in my fifties, I didn’t have a career as such. I’d help somebody else build their’s. It was just the wrong timing for me. That’s really what it amounted to, and I had children who were telling me I was never going to be a grandmother and suddenly they changed their mind. So that helped me come home too.

Ian Ugarte (04:39):

How many children?

Glenys Howard (04:42):

I have two, one of each, pigeon pair.

Ian Ugarte (04:44):

Right, awesome. With the separation split with the former partner, was that in your fifties or was it before?

Glenys Howard (04:55):

Yes, it was early fifties, 51 I was.

Ian Ugarte (04:59):

That brings up a really harsh point at the moment in Australia, the biggest growing demographic of homelessness is 50 plus single female. So this is essentially where you found yourself, you weren’t necessarily homeless, but you did need assistance.

Glenys Howard (05:15):

Oh, absolutely. There but for the grace of God would I’ve gone, absolutely.

Ian Ugarte (05:23):

When you say you helped build someone else’s career, you were talking about your former partner.

Glenys Howard (05:29):

Yes.

Ian Ugarte (05:31):

The difficulty here is that you, for many years devoted yourself to his career, building his career and also to raising the children and keeping a home, only to find yourself in a place where you’ve got no super or anything in your name.

Glenys Howard (05:47):

Absolutely. That is exactly the story and I know I’m not alone. I know there are a lot of us out there.

Ian Ugarte (05:58):

Absolutely, and I don’t know if you got to speak to Rebecca when she was making these appointments, but she was in that situation too. Did it occur to you? Did it occur to you that that was going to be, that was going to hit you front on?

Glenys Howard (06:14):

Oh, no, not at all. No. I had no idea. It was just the typical story of suddenly finding yourself divorced with literally nothing, nowhere to go.

Ian Ugarte (06:33):

What about the rest of the family? I mean, obviously you got children, did they see the [crosstalk 00:06:37]

Glenys Howard (06:37):

I’ve got children and they support me in my endeavors and they would never see me homeless, but I managed to remain as independent as I possibly can. I’m happy if I’m on the list to wake up every morning, I wake up and get on with it.

Ian Ugarte (07:02):

It’s so awesome. I love your spirit, it’s so awesome. So you have the divorce you decided to, and what jobs did you do? [crosstalk 00:07:14]

Glenys Howard (07:14):

Well, mainly because I grew up within, I have retail running in my veins. I grew up with retail, but retail, when you’re in your fifties is either part time or, well, not even, I actually worked as worked in management for a while. Then as I got older, of course I got part time work, which was great. I’ve been very thankful to have that, but when you haven’t got a home and you’re paying rent and you can see that being out there in the public arena and paying rent and the rent is going to continue to go up and up and up. Something’s got to give, you’ve got to get to a point where you make a choice.

Ian Ugarte (08:07):

Give us a breakdown of, probably on an average week, how much you were earning through your part-time work and how much of that. You don’t have to give us some figures, but as a percentage, how much of your part-time work wage was going towards paying for the accommodation that you were in?

Glenys Howard (08:29):

Well, that’s pretty hard for me to say, because I’m now 76 and I did go onto the pension. I was not earning enough not to go onto the pension when I could. So I was supplementing my income with, in fact, when COVID struck, I was working three hours a week.

Ian Ugarte (08:56):

Not a lot.

Glenys Howard (08:57):

No.

Ian Ugarte (09:02):

You are in, do we call it public housing? Is that what you’re in?

Glenys Howard (09:08):

No, I’m not. I’ve been on the list for public housing for 14 and a half years.

Ian Ugarte (09:14):

For 14 and a half years, you’ve been sitting on a waiting list to get accommodation and you’ve had to go to the private rental market the whole time?

Glenys Howard (09:23):

Yes. I’ve shown one property through the Housing Commission. One place. I took a friend with me and her comment was you’ll live in my downstairs room before you live here.

Ian Ugarte (09:38):

Right, It was that bad?

Glenys Howard (09:41):

Yeah.

Ian Ugarte (09:43):

And so you are, Mid North coast which is beautiful.

Glenys Howard (09:47):

I’m actually living in a charity, it’s well, I can call it, I can name it. I live in a Legacy unit.

Ian Ugarte (10:00):

Is there a qualification process for you to be able to qualify for a Legacy unit or is it just an application?

Glenys Howard (10:05):

There always was, they were built for war widows and veterans. But obviously because the war was ended 70 odd years ago, there aren’t as many veterans widows about, so I did not have to meet a criteria. They happen to have four units empty at the time.

Ian Ugarte (10:33):

So now that property there, it’s on the Mid North coast of New South Wales, which is an absolutely beautiful spot. And you’re not far away from the water.

Glenys Howard (10:41):

No, one block.

Ian Ugarte (10:42):

There’d be a concern that if you were in public housing, then you would have housing for life, but this is not a guaranteed housing situation for you, and if you were in a private area, even worse.

Glenys Howard (10:58):

Absolutely, I mean, if I was fortunate enough to own these units, I could see the value of this land just climbing by the day. If a high rise was built where we are, we’re all flat, it’s only on the ground, only ground floor units. A high rise was built here you’d get an ocean view.

Ian Ugarte (11:24):

That sounds like a pretty awesome place, but it also brings up the possibility that even though it’s owned by a charity at some point in time, there’s a return on investment that they look at and go, “well, should we sell and do something else?”

Glenys Howard (11:36):

I’m fully aware of that. That is something that’s always in the back of my mind.

Ian Ugarte (11:42):

I know that because that’s the discussion we had on the phone that first time we spoke. Now tell me from the perspective of the housing market right now, do your kids own property, have they been able to get into the property market?

Glenys Howard (11:57):

One of them does and one of them doesn’t. One of them is only a half an hour away from me and they live on 36 acres inland. Just a little way inland.

Ian Ugarte (12:18):

Awesome, and how many grandkids have you ended up with?

Glenys Howard (12:24):

Four.

Ian Ugarte (12:25):

Four of them, and you love them to bits?

Glenys Howard (12:30):

Yes, I do. There’s two that live close by me, which is great.

Ian Ugarte (12:35):

Tell me, what’s the difference between, because I’ve been wondering about this, technically I’d be old enough for my oldest daughter, and my second one to become parents, very young parents. I’ve started to wonder what it would be like to be a Grandparent compared to a parent. I mean, is there anything that’s very different for you and what do you love about it? Or what do you hate about being a Grandparent?

Glenys Howard (12:58):

What I love about it is that you have the connection without the responsibility.

Ian Ugarte (13:08):

Hand them back.

Glenys Howard (13:09):

It’s not your worry. You can just put your hands up and say, “not my problem.”

Ian Ugarte (13:19):

I presume [crosstalk 00:13:20]

Glenys Howard (13:19):

Or go and ask your parents.

Ian Ugarte (13:25):

I presume that they absolutely adore you as a Grandparent?

Glenys Howard (13:29):

I have two very affectionate grandchildren who live close by. I’m very, very fortunate in that respect. The other two live a long, long way away. So I don’t see them. And they’re older.

Ian Ugarte (13:42):

That’s very awesome. What do you do on a daily basis? What’s what’s Glenys’ day look like or week look like.

Glenys Howard (13:51):

I must say since COVID set in, I spend a whole lot more time at home. I’ve had to think seriously about not just wasting the day. I garden, do quite a bit of gardening. I grow some veggies. I am an artist, I paint and I do some writing. So I write poetry.

Ian Ugarte (14:21):

Is one of those paintings in the background yours?

Glenys Howard (14:25):

What is in the background? The one behind my head is mine, yes. The little one is mine.

Ian Ugarte (14:37):

The little one, it’s very nice. For those who aren’t watching…go on.

Glenys Howard (14:38):

The poster is my brother’s collection of over 150 Kiwis.

Ian Ugarte (14:46):

How do you collect over 150 Kiwis?

Glenys Howard (14:50):

With no problem at all.

Ian Ugarte (14:53):

Are we talking Kiwi the birds or Kiwi the actual people?

Glenys Howard (14:57):

No. Kiwis, the birds.

Ian Ugarte (15:00):

Yes. Right. Okay.

Glenys Howard (15:02):

They moved and they had to downsize, he took a picture of them all and that’s the poster of them all. He’s now got a man shed and they’re all out again.

Ian Ugarte (15:16):

Let’s talk about the awesome, fantastic conversation we had about housing. We’ve got a housing problem in this country. How does Glenys with all your experience fix the housing problem?

Glenys Howard (15:28):

Well, I think when I first saw your post, it strikes me as, it seems to be the timing for me is that there are a lot more people these days, a) living alone b), traveling more ex COVID. When we get through all this traveling for work. There’s a number of different reasons why I see people in my age group in their big four bedroom, three bathroom, double garage, and a shed in the backyard and a garden that they have to mow on a ride on mower. There’s two of them rattling around in this huge space, making a huge footprint. That’s totally unnecessary because they spend all this money on maintaining.

Ian Ugarte (16:32):

Do you know how many empty bedrooms we’ve got every night in Australia?

Glenys Howard (16:36):

I would hate to think how many.

Ian Ugarte (16:41):

The number was 12 million and a recent study has shown 13 and a half million empty bedrooms in Australia every night.

Glenys Howard (16:52):

That really concerns me when you consider the total waste of 13 and a half empty bedrooms, what could be done with those 13 and a half million empty bedroom?

Ian Ugarte (17:09):

Well, you and I both know what can be done with them. You’ve already said senior couples are the majority of people that are out there renting. We need better policy and better councils to work along with that. You said you’re living in 28 square meters is what you’re living in and you love it.

Glenys Howard (17:29):

I love it. However, I’m also into design and I’ve seen 28 square meters well-designed up to date modern that you would not believe. I just think it’s totally fascinating what designers and architects can do these days with the space.

Ian Ugarte (17:52):

You obviously like the design concept of it all. What are some of the things that you would like to see incorporated in your 28 square meters?

Glenys Howard (18:02):

I think storage is probably your most concerning one. Because I think when you do downsize, part of your psyche is, Oh, I’ve got to give up this or give up that or sell that or give it away. There’s always some things that you really would love to keep and not have to discard and I think storage is probably one of the things that I would always consider to be pretty important.

Ian Ugarte (18:41):

Especially with, it looks like that the property that you’re in there is above the standard eight foot ceiling. It looks like it might be a nine or 10 foot ceiling from what I can see.

Glenys Howard (18:54):

It might be a nine foot. They were built in the seventies and they were built solid, brick.

Ian Ugarte (19:05):

Double brick. I certainly can say that when we’re designing our properties, we always have floor to ceiling storage wherever we can possibly get it, and generally we incorporate a wall bed into that as well. Because when you look at a bed…

Glenys Howard (19:25):

I wish, Oh, that would be heaven. See that behind me. See the sofa.

Ian Ugarte (19:33):

Yeah.

Glenys Howard (19:33):

That’s my bed.

Ian Ugarte (19:36):

Oh really?

Glenys Howard (19:36):

My other room is my studio.

Ian Ugarte (19:39):

Where you do your painting?

Glenys Howard (19:41):

Yes, so I have a bed sit here and the bedroom is now my studio.

Ian Ugarte (19:50):

I got asked this question yesterday actually, we were coming up with our purpose and our vision and our mission and we’ve been dwelling on this for a long time and we think we nailed it. What came up was one of the things that I said was, I want to bring back community just like it was in the sixties and seventies. And Josie, one of the talent that’s in our office, looked at me and said, but you weren’t alive during the 60s, so how do you know what community was like? Is community different now to what it was like it was in the 60s and 70s Glenys?

Glenys Howard (20:26):

Oh definitely, yes. I lived on a block and to suburbia, I knew everybody’s name in that whole block. All our neighbors, we knew all our neighbors. I wouldn’t know who lives next door to this block of units.

Ian Ugarte (20:48):

There’s a perfect example. You don’t know. So in the 60s or 70s, you would have known the people either side of you?

Glenys Howard (20:54):

I knew everybody who lived in our street. Where they went to school with who, what their moms and dads names were, and we used to all sort of get together and see each other on buses and bikes, around the place. Also, the other thing I should remind you of is that in the 60s and 70s, we didn’t go to supermarkets. We went to the local grocery shop and that grocery shop knew all of us and delivered to us all and they used to slice the meat and the whole of society has changed. We go to these enormous inward looking supermarket, shopping centers, which I hate. Why do they all look in? Why don’t they look out?

Ian Ugarte (22:00):

It’s amazing. Isn’t it? This is the thing, you’ve confirmed for me, because I was born in the seventies and I knew everyone in the street and do you know, my Auntie Carmel next door? You can see that I’m Australian born, but you can see that my parents weren’t Australian. My Auntie Carmel the white lady next door, I’ve got a decent tan, always all year round. She was my Aunt. She was my Auntie Carmel.

Glenys Howard (22:38):

Because she was your mom’s friend.

Ian Ugarte (22:41):

Correct, now the interesting part of that was I didn’t realize that she wasn’t my Auntie until about the age of 11.

Glenys Howard (22:50):

Yeah. That’s right. That’s what we always did preface nowadays mom’s friend is called by her Christian name, but always had the preface of Auntie and Uncle.

Ian Ugarte (23:04):

Interestingly enough, we grew up in Sydney, very close to the airport and my Auntie Carmel moved to Austinville, which is not too far from you. She passed away about seven years ago now. I couldn’t make it to the funeral, but I did write a letter to her daughter, Bernadette, who I grew up with right next door. It was a really emotional time and moment for me because my Auntie Carmel next door was much closer to me than my blood Aunties, because she was involved in getting me out of bed, getting me dressed, getting food, sometimes inviting me over for dinner, but that just doesn’t happen anymore. It doesn’t happen.

Glenys Howard (23:51):

It’s a sad reflection on society, which I won’t get on to because I’ve just watched the debate from America and I’m not going there. I’m trying to pretend that it isn’t happening. I don’t bring anything more negative in.

Ian Ugarte (24:12):

Essentially what you’re saying is that big business, big housing, big corporation has taken away community.

Glenys Howard (24:19):

Yeah, definitely.

Ian Ugarte (24:21):

And we can bring it back. We can bring it back.

Glenys Howard (24:26):

Yes, we have to firstly, be aware of it happening because it’s insidious and we can sometimes get to the point where we just take these changes for granted. Don’t really notice them happening. There’s 26 women live where I live and I had a birthday not very long ago, and about 12 of us got together. It was just the best thing because it’s important to be aware of who lives next door to you because either, they may need you or you may need them. None of us know. I missed the call this morning because an ambulance pulled up outside my unit and three paramedics got out and went to a unit where they were knocking on the door when I went out. As it turned out, the ambulance had gone to the wrong address but we won’t say that too loudly..

Ian Ugarte (25:39):

How many people came out to see the paramedics from your unit block?

Glenys Howard (25:45):

Only me. Which is, let’s be honest. We have a disparate group of people here. Some of them well in their nineties, some go off in an ambulance on a fairly regular basis. For me it was where the ambulance parked that I thought, there’s something weird going on here because I had already seen the person in that unit that was fit and healthy and nothing wrong with, but anyway, they got it wrong.

Ian Ugarte (26:26):

Lets hope that whoever needed them did get some access to them at some point. I just wanted to tell you a story. so you lived in Tasmania and, and we’ve got six villas… We’ve got… Whereabouts in Tassie

Glenys Howard (26:42):

I lived right up on the Northeastern point near Gladstone. On a property called Rushy Lagoon, which is now part of the Mount William National Park. If you know Tassie. I lived in Longford, I lived in Launceston and all that sort of top Northeast area.

Ian Ugarte (27:11):

We own a block of six villas in Devonport. So you’d know Devonport, and I don’t know how long ago you were in Tasmania, but there was a record store music store in Devonport called Red Hot Music. We also own that building and we are creating 14, how big are they? 38 square meter, New York loft style setups in there. The six villas we own we’ve focused on creating accommodation for people that are retired. That can’t get into the public housing model. We reduce their rent by about $20 a week. That’s not a lot, but we do have two in there that pay, so the rent should be about $220. They pay about one $195. We have two residents in there.

Glenys Howard (28:10):

I should say I paid just on $200. So we’re talking.

Ian Ugarte (28:16):

What we do for two residents is we’ve given them lifelong tenure in the property. Until they go to a nursing home or retirement village, they cannot be kicked out and they also get subsidized. So they only have to pay $60 a week for them. Now the interesting part of that is that we occasionally, yearly, we go down and we have a barbecue and I bring some cakes and stuff and they all meet in one house. There’s an 83 year old there and she’s hilarious. She’s always got me on my back foot. I’m pretty sharp and witty, but she’s always testing me. So she just doesn’t bother remembering anyone’s name, so when the barbecue happens, she calls everyone by their Villa number. “Oh, Hey, number three. And number two.” It’s hilarious. Right? So tell me, you’re paying $200 a week. How much is left? How much is left after that $200 for you to live your life on, on a weekly basis?

Glenys Howard (29:19):

Oh, I should talk a fortnight. Shouldn’t I? Yeah. About $600 a fortnight.

Ian Ugarte (29:30):

So you got $300 a week to live off with what you’ve got to live off.

Glenys Howard (29:36):

Yep, I’m not sure how I do it. I run a car.

Ian Ugarte (29:42):

Because you got to run a car. You’ve got to pay for utilities. You’ve got to pay for food at some point in time you want to have some leisure in your life. You’ve got art supplies that you need to buy as well.

Glenys Howard (29:54):

Yes. I must say while I was still working, I built up a fair few, many of them. I just replenish what I’ve got and I have a low limit credit card, which gets a fair workout. I’m not sure how I do it.

Ian Ugarte (30:18):

That’s an interesting thing, because if you’re saying that your credit cards getting a workout and you know that every week you’re only getting X amount, you still managed to pay down that debt over time. Do you?

Glenys Howard (30:29):

No, it’s not right no. I get it right down. Then it creeps up again. I’m not good. Some people are, I see people who are very good at budgeting, I’m not the best. I think it’s, well to start with, I’m married as station manager, as you probably gathered, we lived out West. We lived on big properties and I’ve still got the siege mentality that the river might come up or we might not be able to get to town, so the pantry and the fridge have to always be full just in case. I can walk to the grocery shop, I can walk to the supermarket, but I still have this crazy siege mentality.

Ian Ugarte (31:15):

As long as you’re not like my mother, my mother will see Nescafe on special and she’ll buy three boxes of it because it’s on special. Then two boxes of it won’t get used by the use by date. My mother in her typical fashion will say, “Oh, but don’t worry, when I was young, we don’t have used by dates.” It didn’t matter. What would you say to, what’s probably the best question. I’m just trying to think which part, what would you say to the over 50 year old women now that are needing to make a decision to move on from their current partner or find themselves needing to be on their own? What advice would you give to them?

Glenys Howard (32:12):

Well, I guess it’s dependent on, well, no, because there’s, there is support out there. First of all, I’d say, go looking for as much support as you can get. There are people who can advise you. In New South Wales we have the Service Center, which, if you make an appointment and go there and have a chat with someone, they’ll tell you absolutely everything that you are entitled to. I think that’s important to know exactly what you can do and what you can’t do. And it’s dependent on whether those people have good jobs or have a good education and the availability of jobs. If they’re professional people, obviously they don’t need to be concerned. But all of those people who are just hanging onto jobs and are not secure in them, these are the people that I feel very sorry for. It’s such an uncertain feeling at the moment. None of us know just exactly where we’re going and what we’re doing, but I think possibly if you had the opportunity to find yourself somewhere to live, that was comfortable, affordable, grab it with both hands.

Ian Ugarte (33:39):

What gives you certainty?

Glenys Howard (33:42):

That’s a very good question. What gives you certainty? First of all, I think if we had a government that felt as if it it was important to give us a certain amount of certainty it would help, but I won’t go there either because that’s another whole story.

Glenys Howard (34:00):

I think probably it’s, I guess I’m very fortunate in as much as I’ve got family that I know I could rely on if I need to. It’s the people without family, without support, that really are going to be suffering big time. I just, I don’t know what gives you certainty. I really don’t.

Ian Ugarte (34:31):

I think the fact that you’ve got the fallback position of family that you can definitely rely on and like you said, there’s so many people that don’t have that

Glenys Howard (34:39):

There are, these are the people that I feel so much for. It’s very difficult. I mean, at least if the woman has been working at least nowadays, she has her super.

Ian Ugarte (34:59):

Yeah.

Glenys Howard (35:02):

That is the best thing that happened to women, I think in then Australia. it’s the best thing and I always feel grateful to Keating for bringing that into being. I just hope that it continues and it doesn’t just go by the wayside because it’s an extremely important part of our lives. If you’re 50 and you’ve got another 10 years of working put as much into that super fund as you can get. I also believe very much in the specific Superfund, if you are in retail, go to resk, if you are in hospitals services, go to HSU. All of that sort of thing, I think we have to.

Ian Ugarte (36:02):

Industry funds do a lot for their people.

Glenys Howard (36:04):

Industry funds definitely.

Ian Ugarte (36:07):

You might be horrified to hear this, but Aaron, who’s my videographer who you’ve spoken to and I went down to an exhibition of a photographic exhibition of a woman who on the sunshine coast, did a photo shoot of all homeless people in the area. She effectively said that 75% of them accessed their super early because of the COVID and went and spent it because they had no nowhere to live went and spent it on hotel rooms at $120 to $200 per night.

Glenys Howard (36:41):

It was the worst government decision of, I just can’t. I just shake my head in disbelief. I think it’s just the worst thing they could have possibly done.

Ian Ugarte (36:56):

So Glenys, I am hoping that this is the start of a longer relationship as friends, because as I’m driving past you on the way to Sydney at Christmas time, I’m stopping in to have a face-to-face chat. I’d really love to meet you, and you can meet my family and my daughters.

Glenys Howard (37:13):

Oh wonderful.

Ian Ugarte (37:15):

I just want to thank you for being so real. It’s not often that on social media, I normally get a hammering on social media. So it’s nice to every now and then have someone go, I agree with you.

Glenys Howard (37:29):

That’s good.

Ian Ugarte (37:31):

So thank you for joining us. Thank you for being part of everything you’ve done today.

Glenys Howard (37:36):

Oh, thank you. I’ve enjoyed it.

Ian Ugarte (37:39):

All right, have a good day.

Glenys Howard (37:41):

Take care. And you’ve got my phone number. So don’t drive past without giving me a call.

Ian Ugarte (37:45):

I won’t do that at all. I’ll certainly be in there. Thank you Glenys.

Ian Ugarte (37:49):

So there you have it. Glenys Howard, what an amazing woman and I really look forward to meeting her in person when I do travel by her. And what if we even get her granddaughter on, see what a granddaughter says about what an amazing grandmother she is. Thank you for joining us again on Small Talk, Big Ideas. Follow us on all the social media channels and if you want to know more, go to ianugarte.com.au, that’s Ian Ugarte U G A R T E .com.au. We’ll see you on the next podcast of Small Talk, Big Ideas.

Voice Over (38:22):

Thanks for tuning into the Small Talk, Big Ideas podcast. We hope we’ve succeeded in our goal to inspire and challenge you and we look forward to catching you on the next episode of Small Talk, Big Ideas with Ian Ugarte.